Value is truly an interesting proposition <img border="0" alt="[bang]" title="" src="graemlins/banghead.gif" /> . I know some folks are itinerery driven and others have other heuristics; but for some of us (at least me) per diem is an issue. With that in mind I took a look at several 2006 cruises on Mariner, Voyager and Navigator looking at per diems. Basic assumptions were lowest priced balcony suite in fare basis. I know with Navigator has less expensive non-balcony suites, but I was trying to do that apples to apples thing :D . I didn't include port charges. Where free air or $1000 off cruise fare was an option, I took the $1000 off pricing (no particular reason, that's just what I did :D ). The listed cruises include some "specials" and various levels of discounts all the way from 2 for 1 to "no past passenger discounts." Where availble I used the past guest price (I figured a significant number on this board fall in that category). I used the pricing listed on Ngaire's web site.

Seven Seas Mariner

Sydney to Auckland 15 days $394.20
Auckland to LA 18 days $233.95
Ft. Lauderdale to SF 15 days $348.27
Buenos Aires to Callao 20 days $402.55
Whittier to Tokyo 14 days $322.21


Seven Seas Voyager

Rome to Ft. Lauderdale 16 days $276.13
Greenwich to Monte Carlo 10 Days $504.30
Monte Carlo to Dover 10 Days $441.00
Monte Carlo to Rome 7 Days $716.14
Rome to Ft. Lauderdale 15 days $318.80
Stockholm to Copenhagen 7 Days $716.14
Dover to Copenhagen 12 Days $431.00

Seven Seas Navigator

Ft. Laud to Monte Carlo 15 Days $265.13
Monte Carlo to Copenhagen 14 Days $338.22
Dover to Monte Carlo 10 Days $393.30
Nice to Ft. Lauderdale 16 Days $281.75
Ft. Laud to Ft. Laud (XMAS) 10 Days $333.80
Ft. Laud to Ft. Laud (New Yr) 11 Days $524.36

I ran these numbers before we went skiing so the prices are a couple of weeks old and do not reflect any recent changes. My real point here is that the price per person per day can vary by as much as 300%!!! If I didn't do an itinerery you're interested in, I sorry; I didn't mean to slight anyone or any route. These were the itinereries my wife and I were considering for the future.

Greg

PS I'm sure I've made a few math errors, hopefully not significant ones .

Greg:

Great analysis. The differences in per diem dwarf any 5% discount. This calculation of "bottom line" per diem is the important factor in determining value (of course, some people do get off the ship so itinerary does matter). Your numbers show the reason so many of us like the transatlantic cruises.

Greg,

Like you I always analyze cruises on a per diem basis. Quite frankly, the thought of paying over $1,400 per couple per day is IMO close to absurd. But that's me. Maybe other people differ and see so much "intangible" value on a cruise that they are not turned off by those kind of prices.

One of the 2006 cruises that initially came out at those ridiculous per diems are the Baltic cruises. Interestingly, yesterday I received an e-mail from Radisson detailng a bunch of dates this summer for Navigator and Voyager Baltic cruises where they will offer either free air or $1,000 off.

That helps make them more competitive but the per diem is still close to $600PP which IMO is way too high for me to see the cruise as a good or fair value.

Yes, Greg, that was an interesting analysis. One of these days when I have more time (as if I don't take enough time off already!) I look forward to doing a crossing at the end of a 7 day port intensive cruise in the Med. Interestingly, the lowest per diems are on the crossings, when the ship has to provide even more onboard services to keep everyone happy during all those sea days! More demand, higher prices.

Greg,

I just pulled my invoice for the Monte Carlo to Dover on Voyager in June and calculated my per diem for a G Cat. at $347 per day adjusted to the free air credit. Included Past Passenger and On Board discount - and with the AMEX credit will drop to $317. I booked on board when the fares came out, before they nixed the past passenger discount on all sailing but this one was a 10% Society sailing at the time booked. An excellent value!

Kathy,

Your cruise is a great value and the itinerary is great as well. I wish I could go on it, but the dates don't work for me :( .

Kathy, obviously a big difference! Have no idea why, other than the free air, which i thought Greg was putting into the equation. No matter, that seems a rather good deal, given the prices increases of late. So many things to consider when selecting a cruise, based on price and itinerary. I hate it when they go above $450 or so, used to hate it when it topped $350. I guess they will charge what the traffic/demand will bear!

If we can't get reasonable fares, we will either cruise less (horror!) or travel in alternative modes. For example, we're due for a car trip - maybe through the Rockies or Grand Canyon. Maybe 2007 for that. We usually go every year to Northern California - Monterey/Carmel. Haven't done that since we've been cruising in 2004/2005/2006 so that's in the radar. So is visiting friends we've met during our travels.

Those per diems are way less even in 5 star properties or B&B's. Time will tell if we'll change our travel mode. Anxious to see the 2007 itinerary. Really want to go on a Baltics or Australia/NZ cruise.

My bad, grabbed the number from the free air table and not from the $1000 discount table.
Brochure Rates Brown and Keene Per Person Special Rates
Category Price New Radisson Deposit Past Radisson Deposit
Guest Price Per Cabin Guest Price Per Cabin
Master Suite $26,495 $14,153 $2,980 $12,737 $2,682
Grand Suite $22,995 $12,158 $2,560 $10,942 $2,304
Voyager Suite $19,895 $10,391 $2,188 $9,352 $1,969
7 Seas Suite $16,795 $8,624 $1,816 $7,761 $1,634
Penthouse A $12,295 $6,059 $1,276 $5,453 $1,148
Penthouse B $11,495 $5,603 $1,180 $5,042 $1,062
Horizon View C $10,895 $5,261 $1,108 $4,735 $997
Class D $10,595 $5,090 $1,072 $4,581 $965
Class E $9,995 $4,748 $1,000 $4,273 $900
Class F $9,395 $4,406 $928 $3,965 $835
Class G $8,995 $4,178 $880 $3,760 $792
Class H $8,595 $3,950 $832 $3,555 $749
Taxes per person additional cost of $325.00 for Port Taxes and $0 Nafta Tax-subject to change
DOES NOT INCLUDE AIRFARE

This is ugly but you can see cheapest is $3555 for a 10 day cruise or $355 per diem. I didn't take on board or AMEX into account for any rates.
Greg

Looking at cruises per diem is the smart way to look at things. Some of the higher priced cruises Greg is probably looking at are those where the bookings got so high that they took off the best early booking incentives. These prices are controlled by capacity and once they sell a certain percentage of the ship they remove the incentives such as free air or $1000 off or reduce the early booking discount and rates go higher. I am sure that is why there is such a variance in pricing. EARLY booking is the key to Radisson best values.

Things such as gold points discounts, AMX on board credit, onboard bookings discounts (everyone who is a frequent RSSC should have an onboard booking) etc need to be calculated in also when making comparisions to other lines or land. That is what you actually pay. If comparing to another line you must also take all the other lines discounts into consideration. Many have repeat passengers benefits. Of course Greg cannot do that as not everyone has an onboad booking or an AMX card so he did it correctly to compare apples to apples.

As I have always said - get to the bottom line to compare pricing. All the figures above that really dont count. So many ways to get to the bottom line but it is the bottom line that counts.

I didn't mean to compare these numbers directly with a Land Tour or another Cruise Line.
Greg

I completely agree that the entire package has to be considered to deterine value. Everyone has a different expectation as to what a good value is for them.

If you've cruised frequently and have done a number of the popular itineraries, for example, the Carribbean. If you've already been there a number of times, even at $250 per day per person, and you don't see yourself going to Grand Cayman, Cozumel and St. Thomas AGAIN, then there is no value for you. But if you've never been to Alaska, a per diem of $400+ per day, may be a great value for you if you were partial to RSSC (as most of us here seem to be!). Again, you can do these itineraries for far less, so the value for you is in the services and amenities included or not included. As for us, we try to stretch our travel budget by selecting cruises where there are special pricings, by booking early, and that fit our timetable!

Actually Greg I think the way you compared is the best way to do things. I often quote that way too as it is the only way to really compare things. Not only is Greg good at analysis he is also great at Trivia. Could have used you this trip, kept missing by one point.

I note that the highest per diems are for the cruises that include Scandanavia. Perhaps this is just a "marketing response" to the fact that land vacations there are prohibitively expensive, and have been so for a long time, or so I'm told.

That's why I think the PG is still a great value. Per diems from 285 in French Polynesia --- and land vacation costs are (IMO) prohibitive there too.

Thanks,
Richard

I have always looked at cruises on a per diem basis. And I find it interesting that the one Radisson cruise I have booked for this year happens to be the very lowest per diem they have all year! I didn't know that when I chose it, it just worked out that way, because it fit the timing and the itinerary, as well as the budget, that I was interested in. But I feel like I got SUCH a bargain -- 18 days on the Mariner, for such a great price! Yippee!
:woh:

Richard, are you talking about the Norway cruises? Or all cruises that leave from Copenhagen or Stockholm? They usually only do one cruise per year through the fjords, making it a very special cruise. Mine this summer on the Navigator was one of the best cruises I have ever had. Perfect itinerary with Iceland, Magdalenan fjord and Spitzbergen before the Norwegian fjords, and perfect weather after a rather cold start in the beginning. Capt. Dag told us on PARTY that he is hoping for a 2007 Norway cruise for the Voyager. Tempting for a repeat to this lovely area.

Yes, at $716 per diem. But I received an email announcing specials on this itinerary, which reportedly happens several times in July and August. The special was $1000 pp off, or free coach air or business class for $449.

Thanks,
Richard

I just went to the rssc website, and can't even find a cruise this year to Norwegian fjords! Is it listed under Europe? When is it?

Olivia,
I would be tempted as well! That was the best cruise ever( sans the "rockfield!!)!

Maria, Thank god you stayed with me at the end of that "excursion from hell" and stayed with me through that "rockfield" in Spitzbergen! Folks here, the guide walked me halfway down, but somehow she disappeared, and Maria took over. It was a lifetime experience, that rock field! My daughter Joanna was up the hill much further with Ngaire's Ken, trooping along. I think Ngaire was walking around the town. Next time I will be with Ngaire on flat ground. In spite of that, or maybe because of it, this will ever be a cruise to remember!

Olivia,

LOL!!!I thought you stayed with me, not the other way around! Well, the important thing was that we kept each other company, wondering what was hapenning with the others. What a fiasco that was! Ngaire was the smartest of all, I think she went to an internet cafe in town.

I really want to do that cruise again, Maria! Just tell me when you are ready! (Maria and I were that last ones on the bus to get back to the ship!)

If they offer the same itineray on Voyager it will be difficult to pass. But I almost wish it wouldn't be as soon as 2007. Bob might say we just did it!!!