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Death of Black Sea Cruises
#254449
04/11/21 10:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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Don't be surprised if Russia moves further into Ukraine in next couple of weeks in the guise of trying to end Ukrainian Civil War (which will go hotter first). This will be the end of Black Sea cruises especially if Russia advances to the Dnieper and in any way endangers Ukrainian control of Odessa. Russia is free to do this now due to a Sino - Russian Alliance which hasn't really existed in the past. If China agrees to buy all of Russian exported oil (and grain possibly) then Russia has nothing to fear from Western sanctions; we cannot touch their economy. As Ukraine is not part of NATO, Article 5 does not apply and no Western government (especially USA and Canada) will come to the aid of the Ukrainians in a hot war.
So what is in the Alliance for China? A large Russian Pacific Navy which can perform shouldering operations (i.e., keep China's potential adversaries separated from Chinese forces) in both South China Sea and Taiwan.
China and USSR were never real allies; now, China and Russia are finally creating that alliance which we feared in the 60s and 70s. We live in interesting times.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255574
02/22/22 04:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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I was off by nine months. I wonder if USA and EU will put sanctions on tourist travel to Russia which would impact our stops in St Petersburg and White Sea this summer.
Marc
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255575
02/23/22 02:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,037
lonestarlady
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So I am guessing you guys are on the Grand Artic on the Navigator?
We are doing the London - reykjavik - Copenhagen on Voyager with added segment Copenhagen to London, which was to include St. Petersburg. That last segment has been wide open until the last couple of days, so I assume they have frozen bookings for now until they decide what the itinerary will actually be... Doesn't matter to us ... we did St petersburg before, and a couple of good excursions. but we would never go ashore there again. So doesn't matter to us if they change our itinerary.
Cindy TravelingTexasDuo.com"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255576
02/23/22 03:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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Cindy, yes we are on the Grand Voyage. St Petersburg not really critical (Faberge museum one new excursion) but trip to White Sea is one of the highlights for me, especially Naval Museum in Murmansk. If they replaced five days in White Sea with Longyearbyen I guess I would consider it a reasonable substitute. Probably won't know until we board.
Marc
PS Still cabins available on our St Petersburg leg.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255577
02/24/22 06:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,037
lonestarlady
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Received this morning from Regent.
Dear Valued Guest and Travel Partner:
The safety and security of our guests, crew and communities we visit is our top priority. Due to the escalated situation between Russia and Ukraine we have made the decision to modify the course of your upcoming voyage and will be removing St. Petersburg, Russia from the itinerary. We are currently working to confirm a revised itinerary and will provide updates once we have more information.
Cindy TravelingTexasDuo.com"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255580
02/24/22 07:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 814
Ralph W.
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Just opened the email that said St Petersburg was deleted. Will be interesting to see what the replacement ports are. Would almost prefer that they avoid the east end of the Baltic.
By the way the heading refers to the Black Sea which is a long way from the Baltic.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255582
02/24/22 08:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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Ralph, this thread was started ten months ago specifically addressing Black Sea ports; didn't know we would lose all Russian ports.
We have lost all five Russian ports including my Number 1 shore excursion for our voyage; not a happy camper; really interested to see what is substituted and what monetary compensation might be forthcoming (probably zero); we have about six weeks until cancellation date so hope they act prior to that date.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255583
02/24/22 09:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 814
Ralph W.
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I can understand your unhappiness about losing the ports. One of our reasons for our Baltic cruise was so June could go to St Petersburg. We most probably will do cruise as we have not been on Splendor and want to get on a ship. I do not need the air credits that would result. We missed going to Petra twice due to Covid and now this.
We all thought Covid was bad. Putin could make Covid seem like a picnic.
June and I finally are able to go back to New Zealand at the end of march and are looking forward to being with family and kiwi friends.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255590
02/26/22 03:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,037
lonestarlady
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Cindy, yes we are on the Grand Voyage. St Petersburg not really critical (Faberge museum one new excursion) but trip to White Sea is one of the highlights for me, especially Naval Museum in Murmansk. If they replaced five days in White Sea with Longyearbyen I guess I would consider it a reasonable substitute. Probably won't know until we board.
Marc
That is a real bummer loosing the White Sea - that would be one of my main reasons for signing up for that cruise as we haven't been there yet. Same would go for us with the Black Sea - haven't been there yet either, and looks like it is not likely anytime soon. Do you think you are going to stay on for the Grand Voyage despite the cancellations?
Cindy TravelingTexasDuo.com"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255592
02/26/22 04:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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We will still stay on; now 31 new ports for us vice 34. I am not too impressed with Regent's handling of this Grand Voyage, though; appears amount of full Grand Voyage passengers is small, don't know if on purpose (i.e., selling segments faster than full voyage) or just lack of demand. Still no identification of special event(s) included in Grand Voyage. When 2021 was cancelled could have booked individual 2022 segments with two category upgrades cheaper in total than Grand Voyage so really counting on the full Grand Voyage being special.
Marc
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#255620
03/05/22 03:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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Russian ports have disappeared; will be interested to see how long before new ports are identified.
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Re: Death of Black Sea Cruises
[Re: Marc]
#256637
08/06/23 07:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,369
Marc
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Don't be surprised if Russia moves further into Ukraine in next couple of weeks in the guise of trying to end Ukrainian Civil War (which will go hotter first). This will be the end of Black Sea cruises especially if Russia advances to the Dnieper and in any way endangers Ukrainian control of Odessa. Russia is free to do this now due to a Sino - Russian Alliance which hasn't really existed in the past. If China agrees to buy all of Russian exported oil (and grain possibly) then Russia has nothing to fear from Western sanctions; we cannot touch their economy. As Ukraine is not part of NATO, Article 5 does not apply and no Western government (especially USA and Canada) will come to the aid of the Ukrainians in a hot war.
So what is in the Alliance for China? A large Russian Pacific Navy which can perform shouldering operations (i.e., keep China's potential adversaries separated from Chinese forces) in both South China Sea and Taiwan.
China and USSR were never real allies; now, China and Russia are finally creating that alliance which we feared in the 60s and 70s. We live in interesting times. With Russian/Chinese Naval exercises off Alaska everything in my post from two years ago has come true.
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