Adding a new topic for discussion - optional pre and post ROAR plans. Victoria Falls has its own topic - this will be for talk about other plans.

When we were first discussing the cruise/safari idea, we looked at the various Silverseas itineraries. Some of their itineraries include a stop at Walvis Bay in Namibia. Knowing nothing about Namibia I investigated further and have added this destination to my "list". I will be looking into pre or post extension there.

We are looking at potential pre-Safaris in Paris Amsterdam, or London. I've always wanted to do April in Paris. Any others looking at combining with a European stop-over?

Not if I can help it! Leslie, I hope you are able to fit in the Namibia excursion pre- or post. I remember that's one of the reasons you got interested in the beginning.

I had considered Amsterdam, but I think Olivia might be right about trying to get to SA all in one flight. Although, I think I would still add a couple of days onto the trip at the beginning. A jetlagged Andrea is not a friendly Andrea.

Marc, with all those Hilton points you have, you could probably do it for very little money. Great idea for Paris, London or Amsterdam if you haven't been there in awhile, or never been. For me, 2 overnights in economy are worse than 15 straight hours that include only one overnight flight (and I am a smoker). You are also blessed with all those miles to allow an upgrade.

Andrea, get there early, girl! No crotchety allowed on this trip! Marcie's impression of you is that you don't have it in you anyway!

Another pre or post idea is Botswana.

Ker & Downey own camps there.

They even have a #1 Ladies Detective Agency tour for anyone who is a fan of Mma Ramotswe.

My husband says I've really pulled the wool over your eyes!! What do they say - you treat the ones you love the worst? Since he won't be around, I'll have to be on my best behavior!

I like Ngaire's information about Sante Winelands. Sounds like a place I would love.

I am slightly tempted to research the Seychelles too...you know, since I'm already almost there!

Andrea, you have way more time and money than me, and you are so young! I say go for whatever you can, you may not pass this way again! Oh, God, the Seychelles. I wish, I wish. I'm just hoping for the Victoria Falls post-exursion!

Oh.. that was my first reason for wanting to do this trip.. the Seychelles are gorgeous.. but again.. after our jungle girls did research we found out some interesting info..
one is that there are VERY BIG BUGS SPIDERS AND SUCH that wander about the rooms..and bite like hell.....
or at least we found out that better to forgo the Seychelles and go to the most awesome hotels on the island east of J'berg... the area.. again I need my jungle girls to refresh .. but what was the most gorgeous hotel and island we found in the research for this trip? One of you must still have the picture of the chaises...
starts with an "M" I think..

Mauritius? Can't remember the hotel, there were so many good ones. Very expensive.

Hmmm, not a big fan of biting bugs! I'll have to look into the island east of J'berg - sounds much more to my liking! Nothing like a couple of relaxing days on the beach. I just love the ad in Travel & Leisure magazine for the Banyan Tree in the Seychelles - it just looks so awesome.

Olivia, I already told my boss to prepare for my being gone for 3 weeks in 2006! Luckily the first week is school vacation week around here, so she'll be out too. That leaves only 2 weeks for her to drift along without me!

I have been to the Seychelles on a cruise. It is pretty in spots but this is the one trip that I would probably not be keen on doing again.

Mauritius looks very nice, especially the Le Saint Geran. Not sure if that's one of the hotels you ladies looked at.

If anyone is thinking about a "wildlife" extension - think about Botswana and the Okavango Delta - specifically Mombo Camp. Combines luxury, premier game viewing and a true wilderness experience. Achieved some notariety when Matt Lauer showed up there this year on the "Today" show.

Botswana - have you been there?. It is supposed to be rated very high for the Okavango Delta and the wildlife. I guess Oprah went to Botswana on one of her safaris. I have an expectation that it will be more like Kenya and not as luxurious as South Africa. More bugs etc. Am I wrong, I really do not know?

Have been to Botswana 5 times. The Delta is spectacular - Botswana manages its eco-tourism by severely restricting the number of guest beds within large reserves. One very seldom sees more than one other vehicle on a sighting - in Kenya, there might be 20. All of the camps in Botswana are permanant tented camps, but it is far from roughing it. The tents at Mombo are 40 feet long, hot and cold running water, indoor and outdoor showers, King beds and a private Sala where you can nap outside. Clearly, the SA lodges are more luxurious - my experience is limted to Singita, Mala Mala and ulusaba, but there are tradeoffs with respect to the wildlife experience, in my opinion.

hrprof: are you suggesting that staying at Singita, we will see lots of other vehicles and you don't like that, or that we will not see the wildlife we are expecting? I admit, creature comforts were absolutely prime to us as we were choosing a first time safari. We came down to Singita because of the promise that wildlife viewing was greatest in this area, given our requirements for our accommodations.

We will see great wildlife Olivia. As a one poster on Fodors pointed out after much time in many areas of Africa 3 of his 6 framed animal pictures are from his time in Singita. We saw lots of vehicles in the areas we were in Kenya and that really did not detract from the wildlife experience for us at all.

Botswana is as I understand it all tented camps.It is very highly rated as a safari destination and the delta is also supposed to be magnificent. However, no matter how plush a tent is it is not the standard of accommodation that Singita and similiar South African camps offer.

We were in a very highly rated tented camp in Kenya with permanent concrete floors with carpet, with hot and cold running water, shower, bathroom etc. We had a wonderful time but a tent is a tent is a tent. I am from Texas, used to heat, and it got so hot in the afternoon I was not a happy camper.

It is all about the experience you want. If it is important to feel part of nature and not see other people then certainly other areas of Africa may be better than South Africa. However, if you want luxury accommodations with all the trimmings with the experience of seeing the animals in the wild then South Africa appears to fit the bill.

No one is right or wrong just different experiences. Personally I am really excited about Singita it was not until I saw the properties and the plan this group put together that I even considered coming. I originally wanted a cruise with a short safari. I think I could stay at Singita for a long time.

This princess wants luxury this time. Air conditioning, no tents, great food and creature comforts.

Keep posting hrprof your insight is appreciated. Botswana may be a good option post cruise for those with a more serious bent towards nature and wildlife viewing.

I have said previously that for a 3 or 4 day African experience, Singita is a perfect choice. Luxurious surroundings, creature comforts, great food, and (almost) guaranteed sighting of the big 5. You will definitely see big game. But, there are a lot of lodges in the Sabi Sand area and reserves are small compared to Botswana. The guides will communicate with each other to insure that all vehicles have access to a sighting - the bad news? Time on a sighting will be limited so that all vehicles can share without crowding. This will cause no problem for most people. But for those who wish to observe wild life behavior at length, it might not be satisfying. Ergo, the trade off. Bear in mind that this comes from a person who spent the first 4 days of our recent trip to Africa doing nothing but observing and photographing the behavior of a pack of Wild Dogs! So, take tthis for what it is worth!

That made me chuckle hrprof. Yes, I think you would qualify in the "serious nature and wildlife watcher" category. I dont think I could spend 4 days watching one pack of wild dogs. I think some of us may turn into wild dogs if we were in that jeep with you for four days.

We started in Amboseli - vans with open tops. We also saw a lion kill a zebra from start to finish and then bring the cubs to feed. All from Amboseli which is "on road" only viewing and lots of vehicles. Still a tremendous experience.

Then we went to Masi Mari - Kichwa Tembo
We did watch a male lion approach a female lion for a long time and it was fascinating. This was in Kenya and there were a lot of vehicles watching this but this really did not detract for me at all. Then the rain came and I guess that is a "cold shower" for a male lion the excitment was all over.

I will say that as we moved from Amboseli to Masi Mari I far preferred Masi Mari. I dont like the "on road" aspect of Amboseli, the jeeps and off road driving is far superior.

With all your experience in Africa I can see you preferring the "Botswana" experience.

Ted:

I am thinking of taking a day cruise down Chobe River (while Arlene is white water rafting or the day after). Will that give me an appreciation for Botswana or is not even worth it?

thanks,

Ok, Ngaire, you too could grow to love Wild Dogs! They are the most efficient predators in Africa, fascinating to observe. Spending 4 days with me in a vehicle is clearly the excruciating part! Seriously, interests do differ. We spent the last part of our recent trip in a private mobile tented camp - that is rustic! At the end of our trip, we stayed at Mala Mala for a few days - a real shower with his and her bathrooms was a welcome change.

Marc, the elephants and the crocs alone make a cruise on the Chobe River a memorable experience. However, (here he goes again) the Chobe region is more densely developed than other areas of Botswana. Since Chobe is within driving distance of Vic Falls, it might make a nice combination. We've stayed at Cresta Mowana - would recommend Chobe Game Lodge.

Ted