My daughter currently owns a 1998 VW Jetta which has been a terrible car in all regards. She wants to trade it in and get a new or newer car (maybe 2 years old) car in the under $15,000. California price range (cheaper if possible). She wants something similar in size to a Toyota Corolla (in fact this is her first choice but she hasn't looked around much). Any recommendations for cars she should consider? Any have a better warranty than others? Any good website that compares the manufacturer's warranty coverage? Thanks guys!!

Marcie-

Here's what I suggest. Take a look in the LA Clasiffieds to see what "deals" the dealerships are running. These usually are one only or maybe a few more at that special pricing. I would also go to Yahoo Autos and look at pricing for cars. On Yahoo you can custom build your car and see both MSRP and Dealer Invoice.....you can then get a feel for your bargaining power! Also, you might want to use the Costco advantage. Certain dealers have fleet sales arrangements under the Costco plan such as $500 over dealer invoice. No negotiating....you are in and out quickly. Cars I would suggest:

Toyota Corolla
Toyota Camry (depending on price)
Honda Civic
Honda Accord (depending on price)

Does this help??

Thank you Todd!! I will do just that! (I'm just trying to help her out with some of the busy work)

All those cars that Todd suggests are great cars, particularly Honda. There are a lot of them on the road with over 300,000 miles on them. The Jettas are good cars. I think VW's are rated higher than BMW on customer satisfaction.

Marcie - good websites for car prices and reviews are www.edmunds.com and www.kbb.com . For $15k she should be able to get a new Corolla or Civic (if not loaded up).

Marcie:

I certainly agree with the recommendations made so far. If you don't already have a copy, go to the public library and read the April '04 Consumer Reports Magazine, which is devoted to rating cars. In the small car segment, Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, and Subaru Impreza are among those recommended. Among larger cars, many are recommended, including Accord, Camry, Nissan Altima, and Mazda 6. If it is warranty you want, Hyundai Sonata is also recommended, has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty, and should be inexpensive as a one or two year old used car. That's because Hyundai had a bad reputation in the past, but have reportedly improved greatly. Also, the Chrysler PT cruiser is recommended, which, with its current $4000 rebate (at least advertised in this area), your daughter could get a new one with some equipment.

I trust Consumer Reports ratings highly in the area of economy and basic cars. Here, they do a great job. In the area of luxury and sports cars, I don't place as much trust in them, as I don't think they understand the concepts involved. But as to basic transportation, I find Cunsumer Reports highly accurate.

Hope this helps,
Richard

I subscribe to Consumer Reports and I agree with Richard in all respects. I do have to to laugh at their ratings for handling though. They see to have one standard for all classes of vehicles. Ford pickups have poor handling while Porsche's are rated excellent.

Marcie and chip:

To add another factor here, there is a big issue of how your daughter physically fits into a particular vehicle. How it "feels" to her. I wouldn't enjoy my Honda S 2000 very much if I were 6'4" tall, instead of 5'9". We had to scratch a high-rated near luxury sedan off our list (Infinity G35) as my wife was too short to get a driving position allowing her to see out and get to the pedals without it also banging her knees into the bottom of the dashboard. And our former Cadillac Catera just "never felt right" to me from the driver's position.

Bottom line, I would recommend that your daughter make a list using Consumer reports as a basis, then go out and actually test drive the cars she feels she would like best. She can test drive a new one, even if she ends up buying a late model used one. I always find that the proof is in the driving, and after she test drives the cars on "her list", I'll bet the selection will become very clear.

Hope this helps,
Richard :) :) :)

I purchased a Hyundai Sonata in December when my old banger gave up the ghost. Because of the warranty and also because a lot of items that are extra on the Honda are standard on the Hyundai, side curtain air bags being the big one. The cost was less than the Hondas, taking into consideration what was standard. If possible I suggest a new Sonata rather than a used one. The reason: while the 5 year, 60,000 mile warranty transfers, the 10 year, 100,000 is only on new cars. If you want the long warranty on the used Hyundai, you have to pay for it.

Vickie:

How do you like your Hyundai Sonata? It is a Consumer Report recommended car. For some of us who remember the Hyundai's of the 80's it is hard to overcome prejudice, but I understand they have really improved.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Richard,

I love my Sonata. I had been researching and comparing thinking that I might be buying a new car (just not as soon as I did) and found the reviews on the Sonata to be consistantly good. And I admit, I like the looks of the car. Especially the front end design which the car salesman tried to tell looks sort of like a Jag. (Ok, it's nice but it might take more than a few of Todd's Cosmos to confuse it with a Jag!)

I got the 4 cylinder 2.1 ltr (16 valve DOHC, whatever that means!) but it is really zippy.
Now mind you, my previous car was a 1989 Plymouth Reliant LE, which also had a 2.1 liter 4, but the marking on the speedometer only went to 85 mph, and I was hard pressed to get that old thing up to 70 even when it was new (freeway speed in most of the non urban areas of AZ is now 75). With the Sonata, I'm up to 75 or 80 before I even realize it.
It also has a moon roof, split rear seats that fold down to extend the trunk space, power outlets in the dash & in the trunk, side air bags, and a lot of little touches that I didn't realize until I found them, such as a button on the end of the wiper controls that when you push it gives one swipe of the wipers, which is great when there's just a tad bit of mist or rain and not enough for even intermittant.

As you mentioned in your post above, just sitting in a car can eliminate a choice. I have very short legs and in most cars I couldn't get the recommended distance from the air bag & still reach the pedals. I also have a long torso & a lot of cars didn't have enough head room (unless you get into the higher priced with the 6 or 8 way power seats). I'm a large person also and some cars just felt cramped. The Sonata just fits me great. Enough head room and the steering wheel is situated so that I can comfortably drive with my seat far enough away & still have no problem with reaching the pedals.

Sorry, I tend to get carried away.

vickie

We bought each of our kids a Honda Civic when they turned 16. The oldest sold his to a friend when it had 180,000 miles (about 8 years old) and was still running perfectly. No problems the entire time he had it. No. 2 also has been perfect for 6 years and 80,000 miles or so. No. 3 was nearly perfect. The transmission did need to be replaced, but it was done at no charge. I cannot imagine a more reliable car and all 3 of my kids love/loved them. They all got the EX model and it had plenty of power and also plenty of nice extras, e.g., sun roof. They are not a lot more than $15,000 new and should be under that if 2 years old.

Note that a great car is much preferable to a great warranty.

I've had my S2000 for 4-1/2 years now. What an incredible automobile! I wonder how many LCers have S2000's?

Richard - we have a G35. Love that car.

Getting back to economy cars, among the many great suggestions so far, I would also recommend taking a look at the Mazda 3. Good looks and good power - the hatchback may even be considered sensible! Road noise may be a problem though depending on how sensitive she is to it. Other possibilities include the Toyota Matrix as well. Or spend more money and get a Toyota Prius and not have to worry about high gas prices again!

Masaki

I like the new Prius. I'm still very happy with my little Maxima, but with gas prices the way they are I've been giving it some thought.

I'm not at all familiar with the Prius or any of these hybrid cars?? What makes them so gas effecient? Is there much demand for such cars now with gas prices? Are they too new to test resale value?

Marcie - the Prius uses a combined gas/electric motor. There is no ignition key to turn. You press an "On" button on the dashboard and the car turns on. :) The electric motor is constantly on while the car is in operation (silently of course). The gas motor will spin up on occasion to keep the motor charged. When you brake, some of that braking force will be used to help charge the battery again. There is a great demand for the Prius currently - generally may be hard to find as most cars are spoken for even before they arrive on the lot (at least here in Hawaii - may be true for CA as well since your gas prices are even more expensive than ours :) ). City 60 mpg, highway 51 mpg. Official Toyota Prius webpage . Also for a non-official viewpoint: Car and Driver magazine\'s section on the Prius

Resale value - no one knows at this point. Toyotas have been historically very good from this standpoint but since the state-of-art of hybrid vehicles is currently a moving target, current technology may become outdated quickly. The Prius is too new to be able to say how it will do in the resale market.

(multiple edits to clarify points)

Masaki

The Prius is an EXCELLENT car, combining outstanding fuel economy with small size outside and big size inside. Probably could not be had new for $15k, though, but tax credits of $2k-$3k for buying a hybird have to be considered. No one need be worried about a Toyota's resale value -- it's consistantly high.

The Mazda3 is new for '04 and reportedly an excellent car. One would pretty much have to buy a new one as it's such a recent model, but it's a good possibility.

The Hyundai Sonata does look a bit like a Jag. Not only in the front, but from the side as well. It is a physically larger car than the other two mentioned above.

As to the Honda S2000, I'm the only one here or on CC that has mentioned having one. It is not a contender for Marcie's daughter, as even a high miles 2000 model will fetch more than $15k. But it is a very different and interesting car.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

apparently the Hyundai Sonata is classified as a mid-sized car.

We have had Hondas and Toyotas for years. They run and run with very little problem (at least that has been our experience).

Alan has a '92 Civic that he uses for work and hates to part with. The car is 12 years old and still keeps going. The car, over the years, has had very little repairs.

We test drove the Toyota Matrix last year, in our search for a car to replace my Honda Accord, that was over 10 years old. The Matrix drove very nicely. We did, however, purchase an Acura TL, as we wanted something a little more "luxury" and mid-size. The Acura TL drives beautifully.

Marcie, there are lots of moderately priced, reliable choices out there for your daughter to choose from.

Richard, Out of curiosity, what do you think of the Mazda RX-8?

Not trying to sub for Richard, but if I were to ever replace my S2000, I'd look at the RX8 (especially if they ever come out with a ragtop). We had a rotary RX-4 in the 70's and it was positively the most amazing engine. I'd also look at the new Z. Chances are, I'd get another S2000 though.

I test drove the BMW M-roadster before I bought the S2000 and, although the M-roadster was almost twice the price of the S2000, the S2K was easily the better car.

I would not recommend a BMW...I have a 740 and have had so many problems with it (including the dealer having an accident while driving it from my house to the dealership for a problem that they could not resolve after 3 tries)...the problems could have been the dealer as I am now having it serviced at an independent shop that only deals with BMW's and it is driving great...but still would not buy another one...actually thinking about the Lexus hybrid when it comes out as I do alot of driving...

I had a Mazda RX7 many many years ago and it was a great car to drive...

Lawrence:

Of course, the Mazda RX 8 is out of Marcie's daughter's price range. I have not driven this car, but from what I know, I like it. We used to own a second generation 1986 RX 7, which was both fun and reliable.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Happy Ending! My daughter Jill got her car today (see photo). She spent the day car shopping and she ended up buying a 2004 Corolla. She's thrilled! Denise & Alan's good friend,a Toyota salesman, helped so much... See what LTC and good friends can lead too...great car deals!! A huge thank you for their help! When the daughter is happy...so is the Mom! Thank goodness....no more car talk around here.

editing: she's wearing an elbow brace due to a recent injury..

Gee, I have a BMW with 55,000 on it and all I've needed is an oil change and normal maintenence. My husband had a 7 series with 170,000 miles on it with little more than maintenence on it when he sold it. He only sold it because we got sideswiped by a semi. and after they fixed it there was a problem with it.

Marcy, glad your daughter got that Toyota feeling!

We love a happy ending!

Great photo of sweet Jill and her great new car. Hope she enjoys her new "Toy!"

Denise & Alan

Kathy,
Glad to hear that you had better luck with your BMW than I have (I have 98,000 miles on mine)...I really think that part of the problem was the dealer though my husband got friendly with them and he called it the car from h_ _ _...

Do not know what my next one will be but I can not see me buying another BMW...though it drives great when healthy...

Marcie:

Happy to see your daughter got the Corolla she wanted. Good choice. Very reliable and good fuel efficiency. It's a good and convenient size, also. Actually, it is about the size of our Mercedes Benz C320 at 178" long, and bears certain other similarities too, minus some of the luxury, power and PRICE! (Ouch, the price!) Seriously, It is a good size to allow convenient city handling and stable highway cruising.

She'll Enjoy It
Richard :) :) :)

Marcie - good choice! Hope it runs well and is reliable for as long as she owns it, as it should being a Toyota! :)

Masaki

She certainaly will enjoy it better than if she had a BMW 740i with the I-drive system. She will live a longer life. With so much less frustration from not having spent so much money on something that doesn't work very well. The newer BMW's aren't what they used to be.

Chip,
Could not agree more...with the money I spent on my BMW I certainly would not expect the troubles that I have had...

I test drove the 7 series I-drive and though it has alot of "toys" which my husband loves, we could not bring ourselves to purchasing another one...

The LS430 has gone up in price though it seems to be reliable and I know many people who love it and keep leasing or purchasing a new one...as everyone know Lexus is built by Toyota who builds a solid car with few maintenance issues...

Once you have problems like that with an expensive car it's hard to forget. There is a lot of debate on the Lexus, BMW,and Mercedes boards on which is better, cheaper, etc. There is one conclusion is that the Japanese cars are cheaper and more reliable. But the German ones's have more soul. Which is why I drive the one I drive although I have to get out and tap the turn singnal light to get it to work every night.

Great pic of your daughter! Should I show it to my son? ;)

Corolla is a great choice. She'll be happy.

I should have mentioned before that we do also have a BMW, a 5-year-old 528iT. We've been really happy with it. I've also owned 2 Lexus SC's and I now own a little Acura and I'd agree that the Japanese cars are more reliable, but the BMW is pretty good. Also, the paint on the BMW is unbelievably good, way better than any car I've ever seen. As for soul, the BMW has it, but so did the SC's, the Acura RSX-S, and my beloved S2000. I'd agree that Lexus sedans don't have soul, but not all Japanese luxury cars are sedans, I don't think I've ever been in a Mercedes with soul though.

Marcie:

Your daughter looks so happy and proud in front of her new Toyota. Best wishes to her.

It seems we have alot of BMW owners here, but I love my XK8....zoommmmmmm (not to steal a line from another commercial!)

Capt. Badger,
My Mercedes has REAL SOUL....Try an SL55 AMG and tell me about your BMW's then!

Congrads on your new ride Suzie. Once you have a car with that much horsepower you can never go back. My daughter has a BMW 325i and reports that my CLK handles much better. That adds up to to win the soul meter, for me anyway. Can't comment on the M5. I've been in one but never drove one.

Chip,
I think I threw my back out doing the AMG STRUT.
Now if I can just figure out what all those knobs and buttons are on the cockpit, I'm ready to roll.

I am perhaps a minority of ONE in that I don't care for the way any BMW I've driven handles! I know, all the car mags say BMW handling is the best, but (as we say here in Oklahoma) to me, it just don't feel right. And that iDrive on some of the upscale BMW's leaves me mystified.

Of course, the European manufacturers don't import anything in the price range of Marcie's daughter's Corolla (except VW with which she had bad experience) so (IMO) the choice to go with an Asian manufacturer was virtually a given. But in the higher price ranges, say $40k and above, I feel the styling on the Japanese cars does not have the timeless quality of the European models. When the Asian makers change body styles on a car you've got, you have an old car. When the European makers do the same, you've got a classic in the making.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Suzie, Reading the Mercedes manual is like reading War and Peace. It just is better to get some hours in the car. The paddle shifting on the sterring wheel I never use. I use the gear shift to up and down shift. One thing I really like as you slow down thr car will shift down auotmaticaly so you can use engine breaking insted of the brakes. I belive the transmission is the same in both our cars. If you don't want to hot rod it you the C selection and the car will start out in second gear. Use the Sport it starts in first. The esp will keep you from spinning thr tires if you floor it. There are many other in and outs. It's just trial and error. But it's lot of fun. Enjoy